In Part One of this series, I examined the problem with translating the Greek phrase, “believe in me,” the same as “believe me.” In English, the main difference between the two phrases are that “believing in” something means we believe in its existence like children “believe in” Santa Claus.
Great article Gary. It does give clarity to these ‘famous’ verses, which might not be as popular had the translation been ‘as much as me’.
You mentioned that some didn’t and don’t believe Jesus even existed.
This may be beyond the scope of your work, but I am curious how you deal with it when it comes to translating his word. I am assuming you are aware there is a growing body of scholarly work comparing the prior myths of the ancient world to the story of Jesus. If mythical, who wrote what, when, and for what purpose? Though we have that issue no matter what we believe about Jesus, does the possible mythical origins ever factor in the translation?
I reconcile that man or myth, I choose to believe in the divine and the power available by living in alignment to its ways, ‘as much as’ Jesus did. Of course, I don’t always do so, but it is my goal.
My question to you, or any of the readers of your newsletter, do you think it matters that prior myths align to our stories of Jesus? Does it add or take away from the truths that great myths reflect or are pointing to?
Again, I understand if this is not within the scope of your work. I only ask it because I think those following and reading your newsletter can handle it and might help me by adding other perspectives that don’t include throwing the baby out with the bath water. I do not allow myself to ask many others because I don’t want to be the cause of their doubt and cause more confusion. The translators did enough of that imho.
First, let me say that most "scholarship" I read on Jesus is nonsense, including books on Biblical translation. The academic consensus is that Jesus spoke Aramaic and his words are themselves a translation. I trusted all this nonsense when I started studying Jesus's words. Within the first few years, it was obvious that his Greek couldn't be a translation. I am a translator. I know what translations are like. Translators have enough problems trying to capture the main sense of a statement, they don't play games with double meanings and punchlines and all the stuff that is in Jesus's words. Impossible!
As far as the "myths" about Jesus. The Jesus I know is the man who said these words. I don't really care if his mother was a virgin. He claimed to be the son of God in the context of quoting the OT that all people are gods. I completely trust what he says, but so much of Christianity is based on myths, most of them from Zoroastrianism, that I have no interest in dealing with it. All the stuff about Satan, hell, angels, and so on, is largely manufactured in translation first to Latin and then to English. Fortunately, my job is not formulating philosophy or religion. Jesus says so much that is overlooked in all this, so much that is valuable, so much that is life-changing, I find it sad to see it buried beneath all this stuff.
However, as far as my personal belief, I consider the story of Jesus at true myth, a story that resonates on a deep psychological level with human longing. I consider earlier and later myths as foreshadowing and echoing of the Jesus story. This makes sense to me, but I have a very non-materialistic view of reality.
Gary- I just figured out that you are responding to my questions when I saw your "freedom" post- which I will read after this comment. My bad for not paying attention to how substack works.
With that said- I want to say thank you again. For answer this and all you do. You have impacted this man with your work.
Under "other complex verses" you question whether or not your analysis works. (I greatly respect you for this question, by the way.) But I think your analysis does work. And that is because, I think, every time Jesus is saying "trust as much as me", He isn't saying "trust in Him." He is saying "trust in the Father as much as I do." That is why we can do "even greater" things than He did. He promises that the Father will work through us just like He works through Jesus. Thoughts?
Great article Gary. It does give clarity to these ‘famous’ verses, which might not be as popular had the translation been ‘as much as me’.
You mentioned that some didn’t and don’t believe Jesus even existed.
This may be beyond the scope of your work, but I am curious how you deal with it when it comes to translating his word. I am assuming you are aware there is a growing body of scholarly work comparing the prior myths of the ancient world to the story of Jesus. If mythical, who wrote what, when, and for what purpose? Though we have that issue no matter what we believe about Jesus, does the possible mythical origins ever factor in the translation?
I reconcile that man or myth, I choose to believe in the divine and the power available by living in alignment to its ways, ‘as much as’ Jesus did. Of course, I don’t always do so, but it is my goal.
My question to you, or any of the readers of your newsletter, do you think it matters that prior myths align to our stories of Jesus? Does it add or take away from the truths that great myths reflect or are pointing to?
Again, I understand if this is not within the scope of your work. I only ask it because I think those following and reading your newsletter can handle it and might help me by adding other perspectives that don’t include throwing the baby out with the bath water. I do not allow myself to ask many others because I don’t want to be the cause of their doubt and cause more confusion. The translators did enough of that imho.
Thanks again for this work.
First, let me say that most "scholarship" I read on Jesus is nonsense, including books on Biblical translation. The academic consensus is that Jesus spoke Aramaic and his words are themselves a translation. I trusted all this nonsense when I started studying Jesus's words. Within the first few years, it was obvious that his Greek couldn't be a translation. I am a translator. I know what translations are like. Translators have enough problems trying to capture the main sense of a statement, they don't play games with double meanings and punchlines and all the stuff that is in Jesus's words. Impossible!
As far as the "myths" about Jesus. The Jesus I know is the man who said these words. I don't really care if his mother was a virgin. He claimed to be the son of God in the context of quoting the OT that all people are gods. I completely trust what he says, but so much of Christianity is based on myths, most of them from Zoroastrianism, that I have no interest in dealing with it. All the stuff about Satan, hell, angels, and so on, is largely manufactured in translation first to Latin and then to English. Fortunately, my job is not formulating philosophy or religion. Jesus says so much that is overlooked in all this, so much that is valuable, so much that is life-changing, I find it sad to see it buried beneath all this stuff.
However, as far as my personal belief, I consider the story of Jesus at true myth, a story that resonates on a deep psychological level with human longing. I consider earlier and later myths as foreshadowing and echoing of the Jesus story. This makes sense to me, but I have a very non-materialistic view of reality.
Gary- I just figured out that you are responding to my questions when I saw your "freedom" post- which I will read after this comment. My bad for not paying attention to how substack works.
With that said- I want to say thank you again. For answer this and all you do. You have impacted this man with your work.
Always glad to impact someone when it is not with my car.
Yeah, I hate it when that happens.
You've done a great job of clearly illustrating the points you were making in this article.
It was easy to understand. Well done and Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it.
Under "other complex verses" you question whether or not your analysis works. (I greatly respect you for this question, by the way.) But I think your analysis does work. And that is because, I think, every time Jesus is saying "trust as much as me", He isn't saying "trust in Him." He is saying "trust in the Father as much as I do." That is why we can do "even greater" things than He did. He promises that the Father will work through us just like He works through Jesus. Thoughts?
I agree. I probably should have made it clearly that Jesus's trust was in the Father.
Maybe that is what you are saying at the very end, but I'm not sure if we're saying the same thing.